Hi
I have tested the peripheral example, by simply changing the device name, on my prototype. (using iOS app)
and its range is not even 10 meters.
can someone please tell me the reasons for such low range.
Thanks
Device:
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Hi there.. thanks for coming to the forums. Exciting news! we’re now in the process of moving to our new forum platform that will offer better functionality and is contained within the main Dialog website. All posts and accounts have been migrated. We’re now accepting traffic on the new forum only - please POST any new threads at//www.wsdof.com/support. We’ll be fixing bugs / optimising the searching and tagging over the coming days.
Hi paramvir.in,
The question is very wide and we need more information here., there can be mulitple reasons in hardware (mostly) like the antenna matching etc.,
Please let us know what is the use case that you are trying to implement, what is the hardware you are using like, if there is a reference design that you have used and some observations like, is this happening during advertising or when in connections etc.,
Also, check this on a Dev Kit and see if there is a range issue.
Best,
LC_Dialog
Hi LC_Dialog
for now I have just tested peripheral example with (on da14586 prototype)
//global initialise
system_init();
rf_nfm_disable();
with above addition in main function, I checked in user_app_adv_start(void) function if its disabled or not
if(rf_nfm_is_enabled())
{
rf_nfm_disable(); // not getting called
}
but still range is same as before less than 10 meters and its for advertising only. looks like I am still missing something.
Thanks
Hi
I have tested same hex file on DK pro with DA14576 module and prototype, range is much more DK.
Thanks.
Hi paramvir.in,
As informed before, there might be an issue with the RF design. Please refer to our Hardware design guidelines specified in the App Notes and User Manuals to verify that your custom board is meeting all the requirements. If everything is with in the recommended specifications, then we might have to do a design review. If you would like us to do a quick review of your custom design to check if there is any deviation from the recommendations, let us know.
Also, you will need to trim the Crystal and Antenna to improve the RF performance.
https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/resource/b-054-da14585586-application-hardware-design-guidelines-v10
https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/resource/b-027-designing-printed-antennas-bluetooth-smart
https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/connectivity/product/da14586?qt-product_restricted_=5&qt-view__reference_designs__block_1=2#qt-view__reference_designs__block_1
Best,
LC_Dialog
Hi LC_Dialog
Following files were used in making design
AN_B-027 Designing Printed Antennas_dxf.zip
AN-B-027_Designing_Printed_Antennas_for_Bluetooth_Low_Energy_2v2.pdf
AN-B-054 DA14585_DA14586 Application Hardware Design Guidelines V1.0.pdf
DA1458x-KnownLimitations_2018_02_06.pdf
DA14586_datasheet_2v2.pdf
UM-B-064_DA14583_IoT_sensor_reference_application_1v0.pdf
design file uploaded, please check.
Thanks
Paramvir
Hi paramvir.in,
I have noticed that you have used a 0.1uF capacitor connected to the VDCDC_RF instead of a 1uF capacitor recommended in our AN-B-054. Change this capacitor to the recommended value and test the RF performance for any improvement. If the RF performance is still poor, try and feed the output of the RFIOp directly to the Antenna by removing the pi network and test again. Let me know your observations after testing these.
Best,
LC_Dialog
Hi LC_Dialog
I have changed the capacitor value to 1uF and output of RFIOp is directly fed to Antenna.
Result is still the same. very low range compared to DK.
Paramvir
Hi LC_Dialog
I am waiting for your response.
Thanks
Paramvir
Hi paramvir,
Check the power output from the RFIOp to make sure if the issue is due to the antenna or something else. Connect a quarter of an inch wire directly to the RFIOp pin and see if there is an improvement in the performance. Make sure you remove the PI network and the chip antenna while doing this and the wire is not coiled around, should be pointed straight away from the pcb.
It is not recommended to have a GND or metal below the antenna. In your design, there is a battery and battery enclosure right below the chip antenna. This can potentially hinder the RF signal propogation. This can be another reason for reduced performance. Test the reception by removing these components.
Also note that, the chip antennas has lower performance and won't be equal to the Devkit performance.
Can you confirm if you did the antenna matching in your design. This is very vital to get better range.
Best,
LC_Dialog
Hi LC_Dialog
As the removing pi network from chip antenna (Johnson) can cause power consumption or any other issue.
Thanks
Paramvir
Hi paramvir,
Apart from the power consumption differences, if the Antenna is not matched properly, you will have unpredictable RF issues. This can arise at any point like during normal testing or at FCC testing etc., You would't want to face such issues in production. It is recommended to match the Antenna or as an alternative, you can also use a Module that is already certified.
Best,
LC_Dialog
Hi LC_Dialog
we need better range like more than 35 meters can you please suggest possible available antennas for DA14580 (chip or pcb).
Thanks
Paramvir
嗨Paramvir,
I would recommend that you refer to our refernce designs. Some of the designs also contains source files for the PCB Antennas. Also, refer to the Modules developed by our partners to check if any of them fit into your design. These Modules are FCC certified and will eliminate the issues with the Antenna overall.
Links attached..
https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/connectivity/product/da14580?qt-product_restricted_=5#qt-product_restricted_
https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/connectivity/product/da14580?qt-product_restricted_=6#qt-product_restricted_
Best,
LC_Dialog
Hi LC_Dialog
1. moving the cell away from the antenna and removing the battery connector on top has increased the range to >= 120 feet alone.
2. and further on directly feeding the output of RFIOp to chip antenna( removing the pi network components) range increased to > 200 feet.
what is power consumption difference between above two cases, I mean with or without pi network.
now I think I should change the design, but what should be the distance between cell or other metal that should be away from antenna.
and how do I take measurements for RFIOp power and any other measurements I need to take, please guide if possible let me know the tools and process.
and if I need to make further bring out pins for measurements in prototype for testing, as I have not done with current prototype.
Hi paramvir,
Regarding the power consumption, there is difference. To get the maximum range, the Antenna has to be matched to input impedence properly. Having said that, the measurements and processes to do that is complex and need RF expertise to execute the design.
I would recommend you to follow one of our reference designs provided on our support website. I am including a couple here that might be close to your design.
https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/connectivity/reference-designs?qt-view__reference_designs__block_3=2#qt-view__reference_designs__block_3
https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/connectivity/reference-designs?qt-view__reference_designs__block_3=10#qt-view__reference_designs__block_3
Or you might have to work with someone who has the required expertise in the RF design. Please refer to our partners page provided below.
https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/ecosystem
Best,
LC_Dialog
Hi LC_Dialog
我有一个问题关于骰子的应用程序。做es the dice provide equally well functionality in a moving train (acceleration & deceleration).
because train is always in motion and if there is affect on accelerometer functionality in that case.
Thanks
Paramvir
嗨Paramvir,
Firstly, I think one of the links in the previous post is not accurate, I was referring to our Beacon design but the link refers to DSPS. Here is the accurate link.
https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/connectivity/reference-designs?qt-view__reference_designs__block_3=0#qt-view__reference_designs__block_3
Coming to you Dice question.,
The refernce application we have works with our mobile application to demonstrate the specific functionality of the dice rolling. This would be question to the accelerometer vendor. Here is a link to the accelerometer in our reference application. Please approach them for more information on this to find out if they have any special algorithms or settings to detect constant motion.
http://www.st.com/en/mems-and-sensors/lis3dh.html
Best,
LC_Dialog