DA14580 communication problems with higher supply voltage - follow up

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mratajski
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DA14580 communication problems with higher supply voltage - follow up

We are using DA14580 on PAN1740 module.
该模块用于硬币电池供电产品。雷电竞官网登录
On the product a microcontroller communicates with DA14580 over UART.

我们正在遇到一些模块连接问题。
We have noticed that it happens when battery voltage is higher like 3.1V - 3.3V.

这是新主题,因为我在前一个的进一步调查结果和问题是'完成'。我收到了从生产中显示出这个问题的新单位。

我们的生产软件在没有任何问题的情况下运行,因为长电源电压低于3.25V。
具有更高电压的电压,运行几秒钟。我可以看到在Windows蓝牙配对中弹出的产品。如果我足够快,我可以获得PIN提示。但是我无法完成配对。

我们已经为测试进行了基本支持RF Master(start / stop)。可以通过整个供应范围(高达3.6V)通信。

To eliminate any possible mistake introduced by us, we used example application from SDK:
\DA1458x_SDK_5.0.4\DA1458x_SDK\5.0.4\projects\target_apps\ble_examples\prox_reporter\Keil_5\prox_reporter.uvprojx
没有任何修改,已经编制了它。
I can see Bluetooth device asDIALOG-PRXR当我在设备上启动蓝牙模块时。
Everything is fine up to 3.25V - I can see the unit and I can pair it in Windows (no PIN).
一旦我将电压提高到3.3V,它就会再次运行几秒钟 - 在设备上电源突出后右侧,但我无法完成配对。
The module is booting over UART without any problems up to (at least) 3.6V.

The Panasonic module (PAN1740) we are using has very little external components (inductor, two crystals and few capacitors).

Voltages mentioned are supplies of our product. The module is supplied through IO pin of a microcontroller, so actual voltage on the module is lower (around 50mV less).

The problem is showing with some units only. Others work without any fuss (pairing and communication) up to 3.6V (and higher :-) ).

什么可能导致这种行为?我应该在哪里进行进一步搜索?

设备:
PM_Dialog
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嗨Mratajski,

嗨Mratajski,

Thanks for your question online. Would it be possible to provide the following data to have a better view on your issue?

  1. 连接失败时的电流捕获。我怀疑某些设备未命中连接事件,因此无法维护连接。您正在使用的连接间隔是什么?如果缺少连接事件,则连接间隔应逐渐变大。
  2. A BLE Sniffer log when the connection fails.
  3. Current capture when the failure device is adverting. Are你能够计算广告活动?你错过了任何广告活动吗?

Thanks, PM_Dialog

mratajski
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1.

1.
In attachement current consumption of the module just right after power on and booting at 3.0V (OK), 3.2V (OK) and 3.3V (it fails).
初始化后,软件似乎是......

连接间隔是Prox_reporter BLE示例(最小。10ms,最大20ms?)。
但是它取决于与Windows 10的协商最重要 - 它具有标准配置。

2.
We do not have BLE Sniffer...
你能推荐一个吗?

mratajski
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目前的消费

目前的消费module with changing voltage:

1. Module powered on and booted with 3.0V

2. Supply increased briefly to 3.3V

3. Supply reduced back to 3.0V

The module is not recovering with lower voltage.

omesa.
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你好,

你好,

maybe your problem is : " The module is supplied through IO pin of a microcontroller, so actual voltage on the module is lower (around 50mV less)."

cheers

Siegmar

mratajski
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I have hardwired the module

I have hardwired the module to external power supply... No luck... It is stopping as soon as voltage is 3.3V...

omesa.
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hmmh .....什么时候发生什么

HMMH .....发生了什么,当您的控制器使用Pan1740 Modul上的PortPin重置Portpin时。

I have in my projekt the same module and mass production will start soon. My external controller can always RESET the modul. This is my hardware watchdog.

cheers

Siegmar

mratajski
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我们的主机软件我们

我们的主机软件我们check communication with the module all the time.
If it stops to respond host makes reset of the module.
与lo模块供电w voltage is working fine and the reset would be used only in case when the module is really stuck - I have not observed it.
As soon as voltage increases I can observe endless loop of resets...
The BLE is active for few seconds and then reset and again and again...
活动期足以检测设备,一次或两次我可以完成配对,但您可以忘记任何通信...

但是,没有与Dialog API示例应用程序(代理)的通信,因此Host中的重置功能是不稳定的。
当它被卡住时,它只是卡住了......

再一次 - 只有很少的单位,我们已经发生了 - 所有其他单位都在工作良好,高达3.6V。
However this is affecting yield and extorts PCBA repairs...

cheers,
Michal

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嗨omesa,谢谢你的

嗨omesa,谢谢你的答案。

嗨Mratajski,I’ll check your inputs and let you know as soon as possible.

Thanks, PM_Dialog

PM_Dialog
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嗨Mratajski,

嗨Mratajski,

Again thanks for your inputs. Please correct my if anything is wrong/missing and kindly provide some further inputs on this. Then, I will escalate all your inputs internally for further analysis.

Issue description:

  • PAN14580 module is used in a custom board
  • DA14580 is powered through a coin cell battery
  • 该问题仅在某些模块中出现,而不是所有设备。您是否可以表明该问题仅存在于其中的一些问题?是否有任何在3.3V电源电压下运行的设备?

电源电压为3.3V时:

  • 一些董事会,开始为一段广告and then continually reset. How do you know that the chips enter an endless reset-loop?
  • BLE很活跃几秒钟,所以你可以连接吗?

Thanks, PM_Dialog

mratajski
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> PAN14580模块用于

> PAN14580模块用于a custom board
是的,它用于我们的BLE启用的产品。

> DA14580通过硬币电池供电
是的,使用锂硬币初级电池电池提供问题产品(初始电压3.2-3.4V,标称电压3.0V)。雷电竞官网登录

> The issue is appeared only in some modules, not at all devices. Can you indicate that the issue exists only on some of them? Are there any device which running at 3.3V supply voltage?
我们不会使用3.3V进行生产测试。我们只需在生产结束时使用新鲜电池(电池电压测试为至少3.2V或更大的电池)。
有些单位(少数百分点)尚未使用新鲜电池进行最终的BLE通信测试。
Majority of produced units have no problem with initial (higher) voltage of the battery.
We do perform BLE tests of every PCBA at 3.0V as well. At this stage all units are communicating without any problems.

I have tested some failed samples from production - for them threshold voltage is around 3.25V. I observe problem above this voltage.
我也在测试了一些传递的样本 - 它们良好高达3.6V。

> Some of the boards, start advertising for a while and then continually reset.
Yes, I can observe the correct name of the BLE device in Windows 10 Bluetooth pairing.

> How do you know that the chips enter an endless reset-loop?
我观察主CPU和DA14580之间的通信使用示波器。我也观察重置线。
The host application does not receive CTS from application running on DA14580 and it resets the Bluetooth module after time out – DA14580 is entering UART boot process, loads firmware and starts normal operation for few seconds and CTS is missing again...

> BLE is active for few second, so are you able to connect?
Among others I am able to read ADC converter values from DA14580 over the BLE from time to time (reset and ADC pooling loops are not synchronized),
when the problematic unit is supplied with 3.3V.
The pairing is perform at 3.0V before the test.

I managed to pair Bluetooth device in Windows 10 once or twice with 3.3V powered problematic unit.

I got impression it is getting worse if I increase voltage (like 3.4V or 3.5V) for problematic unit.

问候,
Michal

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嗨Mratajski,

嗨Mratajski,

让我在内部升级您的投入。我会尽快回复你的反馈。

Thanks, PM_Dialog

omesa.
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Hi Michal

Hi Michal
" The host application does not receive CTS from application running on DA14580 and it resets the Bluetooth module after time out – DA14580 is entering UART boot process, loads firmware and starts normal operation for few seconds and CTS is missing again..."

Whats happened, when your host resets not the PAN1740 ? It is still alive and advertising ?
What kind of host you have ?
也许用于测试Modul,您可以将标记固件放在上面。
Another idea, maybe the CTS Signal is too short or the serial communication is failed.
你的讨厌是什么?它受到了校验和吗?
Sorry, this are only speculations, because we have not the hardware in front of us.
cheers
Siegmar

mratajski
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Hi omesa,

Hi omesa,

When CTS is missing, the DA14580 is not advertising anymore.
CTS脉冲长足够长的微控制器。当在DA14580上运行的应用程序挂起时,它不会再发送CTS(短或长 - 使用示波器验证)。
该应用程序基于SDK的示例。

We have put proxy firmware (example from Dialog SDK without any modifications as I have mentioned before already) on the module as well.
With higher voltage is the same - it is advertising for few seconds and then it stops. You can see with current drawn that the module is not transmitting anymore.
这意味着当存在更高的电压时,非常简单的应用程序(根本没有与主机的通信)悬挂。

问候,
Michal

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嗨Mratajski,

嗨Mratajski,

I’ve already escalated your issue internally. I will keep you updated.

Thanks, PM_Dialog

PM_Dialog
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嗨Mratajski,

嗨Mratajski,

Can you please change the BANDGAP_REG [LDO_RET_TRIM] bitfield to a lower value? The default value for DA14580 and SDK5.0.4 is 0x0A, so change it to 0x09. You can also refer to DA14580datasheet and Table 26: BANDGAP_REG (0x50000028) for more information. You will have to add the following line in the system_init() function before the periph_init() call.

void system_init(void) { ... // Check and read BD address nvds_read_bdaddr(); SetBits16(BANDGAP_REG, LDO_RET_TRIM, 0x9); //Peripherals initilization periph_init(); ... }

Thanks, PM_Dialog

mratajski
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嗨pm_dialog,

嗨pm_dialog,

It seems to be working! :-)
我收到了代理示例工作(我可以在Windows中配对)高达3.5V。
在3.6V时,我不能像以前一样配对。
我还需要做进一步的测量来确定,但问题是:使用带隙电压的合理有多低?
There is 3uH coil used (I will try to confirm it with Panasonic) as I have measured on other module.

Do you have any additional documentation for the register? TheTable 95: BANDGAP_REG (0x50000028)is not giving much details and注18.is a little bit confusing...
预期什么副作用?

问候,
Michal

mratajski
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嗨pm_dialog,

嗨pm_dialog,

我测量了当前的电流消耗,通过Bankap调整。
我使用简单的场景 - 在蓝牙上使用DA14580上的ADC读取电池电压,维持3.0V电压,因此它适用,无需修改。
Our product consumes on average around 1.2mA with default bandgap configuration and around 2.4mA with value set to 0x9...

因此,修复器有助于更高的电池电压(不完全,但对我们来说很好),但使用蓝牙时,它会加倍电流消耗......
This is not exactly what we are aiming for... Do you have any other idea?

问候,
Michal

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嗨Mratajski,

嗨Mratajski,

Are you using the same firmware with same advertising intervals? Did you test it with any of our SDK examples, such as ble_app_barebone? You mentioned that the battery voltage is 3.0V instead of 3.3V (which was the problem). Can you please clarify it?

Battery voltage = 3.0 Volt

- When BANDGAP_REG[LDO_RET_TRIM] = 0x0A, current consumption is 1.2mA

- When BANDGAP_REG[LDO_RET_TRIM] = 0x9, current consumption is 2.4mA

Thanks, PM_Dialog

mratajski
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Hello,

Hello,

3.3V - voltage of fresh battery cell (sometimes it is higher)
3.0V - 电池的标称电压
我们的产品必须与两个电压一起使用。
蓝牙在某些单位上下降/悬挂在3.3V(我已经描述)。

I have performed current measurements at voltage keeping Bluetooth alive on all units. Just to be sure there are no other effects.

软件中唯一的区别是bandgap_reg [ldo_ret_trim]。所有其余的尚未触及(包括广告间隔)

BANDGAP_REG[LDO_RET_TRIM] = 0x0A ---> current consumption is 1.2mA
BANDGAP_REG[LDO_RET_TRIM] = 0x09 ---> current consumption is 2.4mA

无论3.3V的问题如何,当前消耗都会增加。两个“好”和“坏”单位需要更多的电流。

我用两个设置连接了一个单元的电流测量。

问候,
Michal

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嗨Mratajski,

嗨Mratajski,

您能否请拒绝da1458x_stack_config.h标题文件中的cfg_power_optimizations宏?之后,您是否能够看到电源消耗的任何差异?

Thanks, PM_Dialog

mratajski
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嗨pm_dialog,

嗨pm_dialog,

Thank you for new ideas :-)
Unfortunatelly I do not see any significant difference... On average it is only around 15-29uA less... :-(

问候,
Michal

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嗨Mratajski,

嗨Mratajski,

我为迟到的回应道歉。实际上它是一个自定义PCB,有几个参数涉及并观察系统性能中的这种行为。例如,以下参数可能会影响系统:

  • Xtal Cut.
  • PCB layer
  • PCB layout
  • 内部温度
  • 定位的晶体
  • Impact on overall system performance

The resolution is to change LDO_RET_TRIM bit-field to a lower value (as previously suggested) and keep the system functional in the known operational limit.

Thanks, PM_Dialog

mratajski
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嗨pm_dialog,

嗨pm_dialog,

谢谢!
似乎我现在需要推动模块制造商......

Best Regards,
Michal